tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post6879843748780007918..comments2024-03-04T08:09:48.871+00:00Comments on Just pleasantly floundering around.....: Secondary schoolsMolly Potterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16322262170382594290noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-25741843572504707482010-02-10T20:21:24.157+00:002010-02-10T20:21:24.157+00:00I totally agree about the targets, I dropped all f...I totally agree about the targets, I dropped all foreign languages at 14, with special permission from my French teacher, who in a moment of epiphany realised I really actually just didn't get it. I'm the same with music score, I just can't make the connection in my head. At the age of about 35 after a few trips to France and various French family members it suddenly started to make sense. So my target age must have been 35-ish. Music I've given up hope, I do it entirely by ear, and can read tab, but I get by, maybe 45 will be my reading music epiphany year. So yes anyway, I really do detest the whole target, measuring side of our present culture, doing a lot of design for third sector, I see the lengths and expense caused by measuring things, particularly relating to housing and social care. It's a bit weird. <br /><br />Another good thread Molly, don't stop.typejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-26803242139251897572010-02-10T12:12:37.940+00:002010-02-10T12:12:37.940+00:00Thanks Jonathan for the update on your children.Thanks Jonathan for the update on your children.Claire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-75823781351136863152010-02-10T09:50:54.776+00:002010-02-10T09:50:54.776+00:00Claire, one child has grown up. She was very dire...Claire, one child has grown up. She was very directed and got the GCSEs she needed, at home but with admirable support from the school she'd left, to de a dance BTech. That gave qualified her to do a dance and choreography degree at the Laban. One child is in year 10, doing GCSEs at home at great expense, the other (Yr7) goes to school but worries about attendance targets, homework and planner marks for minor infringements to the extent that she eplodes when she gets home.<br /><br />I'm with you on the gnomes, TJ, but managed to keep my distance. The main teacher at the (very) small school was terrible with adults but great with children. The fact is that the Steiner system, for all its kowtowing to the dead guru, is genuinely child-centred. It also seems to have a better understanding of child development. There's nothing wrong with a child learning to read at four, and nothing wrong with helping them in that if they are drawn to reading. The problem comes when you set a reading target that's supposed to be good for all four-year-olds.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10412300721454784537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-21844455332300691362010-02-10T08:53:25.396+00:002010-02-10T08:53:25.396+00:00Yes, I think you're right too Nick - let me ad...Yes, I think you're right too Nick - let me adjust what I said then: school does generally not cater well to very physical, outdoorsy, learn by doing personality types.<br /><br />But you might want to have another little look at the genitalia of your son...just in case...Claire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-53869098612965306332010-02-10T08:10:32.602+00:002010-02-10T08:10:32.602+00:00In total agreement Nick.
My 'flamboyant' s...In total agreement Nick.<br />My 'flamboyant' style of teaching got some kids whipped up, but probably unsettled those that went on to be librarians! They got their turn when they had Ms Hockey Sticks the following year. Some resilience and felxibility will take kids a long way.<br /><br />Vive la difference.<br /><br />Off to a T crossing and I dotting conference about the Healthy Schools Enhancement Model - not my cup of tea - but some of these headteachers cannot get enough (see previous post in autumn 'When you wonder if you are going crazy...')Molly Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16322262170382594290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-37180580135010267052010-02-09T23:27:11.960+00:002010-02-09T23:27:11.960+00:00Hmm, I don't know, "I've got one of t...Hmm, I don't know, "I've got one of those, yuk outside, why would I want to go out there" boys. and three girls, two of whom are fairly girly, although not exactly barbie pink or anything, and one who's a bit tomboyish. I suspect as someone pointed out i think, that different situations and educational subtypes cater for different types of kids, boys or girls, perhaps it's more personality than anything. It's the same with career choices, I couldn't stand and discuss stuff in front of nodding men all the time, I'm not comfortable with pitch meetings, but I do it occasionally, I'm fine with informal stuff, but give me a visual puzzle or ask me to come up with a visual metaphor, living in that paper and symbols territory I'm happy as larry, whoever he is. We're all different, I suppose I do the likes of Steiner a disservice, because it should be about what suits particular people or personality types.typejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-34053866407069717352010-02-09T19:20:45.410+00:002010-02-09T19:20:45.410+00:00Can I introduce a new thread (though I am too late...Can I introduce a new thread (though I am too late) and say that I think our education system is far more suited to girls than boys in general. My son, who is a very boyey boy and always needed to be very physically active, be outside a lot, learn by doing, etc. is just not designed to sit down at a table from age 4 and deal with paperwork and symbols (instead of real life)for most of the day. The girls (in general) adjust to this much better and some of them thrive on it. Boys are not catered to well in my experience.Claire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-80117917122384805062010-02-09T18:31:42.242+00:002010-02-09T18:31:42.242+00:00That's because there is excellent practice out...That's because there is excellent practice out there...but not everywhere.Molly Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16322262170382594290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-19702403665840463622010-02-09T11:37:30.036+00:002010-02-09T11:37:30.036+00:00But I agree with everyone! ClaireBut I agree with everyone! ClaireClaire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-2430709725275100342010-02-09T09:56:22.037+00:002010-02-09T09:56:22.037+00:00troublemaker...
;Ptroublemaker...<br /><br />;Ptypejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-71946925510673065122010-02-09T09:21:38.507+00:002010-02-09T09:21:38.507+00:00Ooh, is this a heated debate?!! Mrs. MertonOoh, is this a heated debate?!! Mrs. MertonClaire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-81359041793451723472010-02-09T00:10:57.002+00:002010-02-09T00:10:57.002+00:00I'm sorry, but I have to defend our education ...I'm sorry, but I have to defend our education system, it ain't perfect, no denying that, but over the last 8 years or so as our children have progressed through secondary school, we've had various gaggles of bright, lively and intelligent children and teenagers rushing in and out of our lives with the ebb and flow of it all. Arriving as they do from all over the city and nearby muddy lanes, from a huge mix of backgrounds; from the children of unemployed single parents' living in shitty council flats off St Martins to a music lawyers kid from Thorpe, they've been a variety of shapes, classes, colours and creeds. The things they've have in common is they go to the same state high school and they are all pretty much dazzling people. Maybe we're just very lucky, or maybe our schools are actually a lot better than we give them credit for, exactly because they mix it up, because they bring all these different social groups together, and give people something that is as close as we can manage an equal chance.typejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-66465752889913831582010-02-08T21:20:11.409+00:002010-02-08T21:20:11.409+00:00Uniforms........ ugh smacks of the control over sy...Uniforms........ ugh smacks of the control over syndrome along with arms folded over the chest.<br />It has been a long time since I escaped from school. <br /><br />Am a fan of the Montessori and Steiner education models, they seem to encourage a certain brightness in their pupils, that is missing from the run of the mill stereotype.A Heron's Viewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06563706152609630696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-918825555671298422010-02-08T20:48:33.534+00:002010-02-08T20:48:33.534+00:00I hope our kids surviving state education is partl...I hope our kids surviving state education is partly down to us, who knows. I like mucking about with art and that, We both love reading so they learnt pretty early, not in the womb or anything like that, I just pumped loud music at them at that point. I can't say I'm a huge fan of Steiner or Montessori. I don't know what it is, the Catholicism, the sticks or the gnomes (I jest), but there is something about it that I just find a bit odd, maybe Molly has a test I can do to unsettle me for a few days and find out.<br /><br />I actually quite like state education, it does just needs to not have so many stupid tests and maybe a few less stupid teachers, that may seem unfair, but both my 13 year old and my 18 year old have commented on an astonishingly badly equipped IT teacher - who didn't know how to turn a computer on - why do they need to learn that stuff, everyone has a computer don't they, I mean excel - do a masterclass later - sheesh... and maybe education could have less managers, I also like the NHS, who've sewn enough bits back on me to prove their worth, and really hot chillis I like those too, and Nick Drake I really really like Nick Drake at the moment.typejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-40555222736964294262010-02-08T20:34:57.061+00:002010-02-08T20:34:57.061+00:00The school that my children went to in France was ...The school that my children went to in France was nicknamed Stalag Luft 3.5. It was a square concrete block with not a scrap of work on the walls. It was honestly the most depressing place and totally non-conducive to learning. The toilets were locked during break times and both children were subjected to racist comments by teachers and support staff. Bullying was rife too. Most of the teachers were just 'serving time' as government employees until retirement although there were the odd one or two who did seem to actually like their jobs. Neither was given the opportunity to visit the school before they started and the change from their small (24 pupil) rural school to a town secondary was huge. On the other hand, their school here is truly inspirational. The standard of teaching is phenomenal and the school environment is warm and welcoming. The minute we walked through the door we knew that we'd made the right decision to return to the UK.The Accidental Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01146937745719946782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-63456453953216074672010-02-08T20:11:17.433+00:002010-02-08T20:11:17.433+00:00I work as an LSA in a primary school, in a year 6 ...I work as an LSA in a primary school, in a year 6 class. Luckily Amy, the deputy head and also class teacher of yr 6 is one of the most inspirational and proactively positive teachers I have ever met. She teaches in such a way that EVERYTHING we do is interesting and exciting, even maths (which I hate). And different. For example, to help them remember what a 'perimeter' is )opposed to 'area', we walk around the edge of the hall, and maybe Pee against the wall (pretend), so we remember p is for perimeter, the outside edge.<br /><br />I digress.... throughout the whole year we prepare them for secondary school. Everything we do always has a back issue of teaching them to be responsible for themselves, getting themself organised (their books, their trays, their everything), explaining at secondary school they will have lots of teachers, not just the one. The skills they learn with us not only give them coping mechanisms to enter secondary school prepared, but also life skills to see them through with whatever they choose to do with their life. I have seen the children enter our class in September, and leave at the end of our school year confident, happy, and excited to be taking the next step forward. We are also very lucky in that our nearest secondary school is just over the road, and we have very strong links with them, their teachers come over and work with our kids, we use their impressive city learning centre (computer suite) - this Thursday a teacher from there is coming over with video equipement and an apple mac to spend a day with us so our class can make a film about our school for a video competition we are entering. <br /> Our primary school is shunned by the white middle class neighbourhood around us. At a local coffee morning, a spy tells us that one of the women verbally had a go at another woman asking 'why do you send your kids to that ghetto?' We have an incredibly high proportion of children with english as a second launguage, (5 times the national average), many who arrive with NO english (just had two mongolians arrive this week!), and many with learning difficulties. We have parents banned from the playground because they (physically) fight, and some who talk of 'hating' our school (but still send there kids here), but they are just full of hate anyway. <br /><br />However, with a one form entry, we are a small school, and it feels like a family. A happy family. Love almost oozes out of the walls (well it does in my classroom). Reading what you all wrote about schools, I thank you, as it has made me again appreciate what I have. Some of our kids have rotten home lives, and the love and attention they get from us is sometimes more than they recieve outside these walls. <br /><br />I think, like life, it is not just what you do, it is where you do it, and who you do it with that counts....WendyElfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08587387904031789883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-13952535807649131812010-02-08T18:32:35.660+00:002010-02-08T18:32:35.660+00:00Jonathan - I'm a big fan of the Steiner philos...Jonathan - I'm a big fan of the Steiner philosophy and believe that learning to read (or learning written numbers) at age 4 is generally too young (symbolson paper before concept understanding). I visited a Steiner school with a view to sending my son there but found Steiner in action was disappointing in this case - primarily because of the particular teacher which he would have had for the whole of primary as you know. Where do your kids go now or are they home educated?<br /><br />Molly - Year 7s - deffo more up for it here than Year 6s but that is proabably a reflection of the primary school! (apart from fairly uninspiring teaching, they spend the whole year practicing SATS). I visited two middle schools in Frome and thought they were great - apart from the smaller size of the schools compared to secondary schools, they had an understanding of the nature of children's "middle years" and what the kids needed. I think it kind of makes sense to have a school for this "middle" stage - if done well, and not just treated as an extended primary school.Claire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-2688346839726031942010-02-08T17:42:26.287+00:002010-02-08T17:42:26.287+00:00Claire - The Year 7s in the middle had outgrown th...Claire - The Year 7s in the middle had outgrown their school to some extent - yes - but their attitude was still quite different from those at high school - more 'up for it' while still in the primary. The contrast was stark! We visited about 5 schools and found the same. Pilot scheme?<br /><br />Jonathan - I remember what your eldest reported about state school after being in a Steiner - 'there are no (healthy) relationships in the school.' The state school appear to be improving (as compared to my time at school)...but slowly step by step rather than the whole re-vamp it possibly needs! There are inspirational and exciting things going on - but not unifomly - as you know! I think the bottom line is too many children in classes to give meaningful attention to.<br /><br />Mr T - Yes an inspirational teacher can have a fantastic impact....the current tick box climate appears to squeeze them out. Schools don't appear to let ALL teachers work to their stengths...some are T crossers and I dotters, some are creative wonders...the latters are currently made to conform to the prefernces of the formers!<br /><br />FF - no comment? What??!!!???** Not like you at all! Tell me what you had for breaskfast.<br /><br />GOK - what made you sound dinosaurish?????<br /><br />Carol - back in 'our' day, many schools were truly uninspiring! I remember my high school having a policy of not giving responsibilities to pupils because then they could not break rules or mess about??? What sort of a policy was that? it really should be a time when we get our young people to become excited about opportunities open to them....which sadly doesn't always happen.Molly Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16322262170382594290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-47267144801445899952010-02-08T16:25:08.261+00:002010-02-08T16:25:08.261+00:00That Headmaster sounds inspired!! From a community...That Headmaster sounds inspired!! From a community development point of view he's doing all the right things to keep the pupils in his school engaged and that's no easy task!<br /><br />I didn't hate school but it sure wasn't a great place to be! I went to a small school, about 800, in a small town. The kids there had no interest in learning and the teachers there had no interest in teaching...I got picked on (bullied would be too strong a term for it) because I wanted to go to Uni...fortunately I've always been a bit gobby so gave as good as I got (I know, I can tell your surprised!) so it was water off a ducks back. I've always thought I would have done better sooner had I gone to a school where I was encouraged.<br /><br />C xCarolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327016337976942530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-73126397556046496002010-02-08T16:21:45.431+00:002010-02-08T16:21:45.431+00:00Claire, all three children have had time in a Stei...Claire, all three children have had time in a Steiner school. These schools come with their own problems, one being a lack of state funding, another being parents prepared to pay for an education tend to choose schools they believe will accelerate their learning. The Steiner system begins more gently than the National Curriculum. My youngest began learning to read aged about seven. At eleven she reads as well as the most academic of her peers but has had the benefit of a longer pre-literate period. (Don't imagine the alternative to learning to read is merely a vacuum.)<br /><br />TJ, I am glad your children are doing so well. I suppose I would have to ask how much that was down to school and how much was down to a supportive home background and their own potential. Children are very robust and will thrive practically anything if they are loved and encouraged. I'm not saying school is all bad (I work in them after all!), just that it could all be so much better.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10412300721454784537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-52133322428002512022010-02-08T16:19:13.640+00:002010-02-08T16:19:13.640+00:00Makes me sound dinasaurish, but I tried, honest!Makes me sound dinasaurish, but I tried, honest!Grumpy Old Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17828200865710133059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-91198191824477971652010-02-08T15:15:57.908+00:002010-02-08T15:15:57.908+00:00This is out of my realm of knowledge really (since...This is out of my realm of knowledge really (since when has that ever stopped you? Ed.)French Fancy...https://www.blogger.com/profile/04941577892849157015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-83949173769527131252010-02-08T12:04:53.906+00:002010-02-08T12:04:53.906+00:00Hmm, I can't agree about secondary education b...Hmm, I can't agree about secondary education being economic, my oldest two, have had some amazing and inspiring teachers particularly in English which they are both good at, One in particular, who now works in private education, which is such a pity as the state schools need people like him.<br /><br />This has really driven their enjoyment, we started them on the route (well Jen did, I just provided the eclectic soundtrack), by encouraging them to read from an early age, showing learning had value, that knowledge and understanding are important.<br /><br />I think they've both had value out of their education, despite it being a bit bumpy in places. One is doing a degree in "thinking about stuff hard" then an MA hopefully in "even deeper thinking about stuff" the other is going to do a degree in "speaking and how it works in your head". I believe what they've got out of the system, together with the skills we have tried to furnished them with, will hopefully give them a reasonable chance at almost any career choice they ultimately take. They both want to write something or other, I hope they manage it.typejunkyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04193470352141870743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-44759576788881310322010-02-08T11:54:21.016+00:002010-02-08T11:54:21.016+00:00Jonathan, are your children at Steiner now? (as te...Jonathan, are your children at Steiner now? (as teenagers)?Claire Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807145467178332868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4438823154447008264.post-83811927028136390032010-02-08T11:01:05.717+00:002010-02-08T11:01:05.717+00:00My two elder children left secondary school in the...My two elder children left secondary school in their early teens. The first left because she could no longer tolerate the environment. The impetus came in the form of a book lent to her by her sociology teacher which made the point that there was no sound educational reason to stay. (Sorry, I forget the name of the book.) The second left because her school, which trumpeted its 'child centred'credentials but clearly wasn't, lacked the will or flexibility to address her concerns which could have been remedied by movning from one set to another.<br /><br />I am convinced that the primary function of secondary education is economic: the provision of child care as cheaply as possible so that adults can go out to work and kids can be kept away from mischief. Most of what is taught is arbitrary and has little bearing on future jobs or careers.<br /><br />Oh, and don't get me started on pastoral care. Given the nature of high schools it's often a case of applying the wound with one hand and the plaster with the other.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10412300721454784537noreply@blogger.com