Saturday, 6 March 2010


I went to a conference yesterday. Always interesting.

In a hall of more than one hundred social workers, youth offending workers, people that work in pupils referral units, people that work with looked-after children, school nurses and many others from the caring professions working mostly with vulnerable children and young people, somebody piped up in the afternoon and said something to this effect:

"If you give these attention seeking children attention, won't you encourage the attention seeking behaviour we are trying to prevent?"

I call these people navelgazellites; people that see the efforts in improving children and young people’s emotional health and wellbeing as over-indulgent. They are a dying breed but they still pop up now and again. They are ‘old school’ and haven’t quite moved with the times. They still believe in a slight breaking of the spirit to keep these kids in check – especially the really vulnerable ones, because they tend to be more bother.

I met a Headteacher recently that was a navelgazellite. In a room full of teachers and headteachers. She regularly piped up with comments like,

“kids just need to toughen up.”

“Isn’t all this just ridiculous navel gazing?”

“All this self esteem stuff is wasted effort if you ask me.”

“If a kid is bullied on their way home from school, why should that be something I have to concern myself with?”

Fortunately, she was in a minority and I loved it when another headteacher said in response to the fourth comment of hers that I listed here,

‘well you either care about the kids or you don’t. A child from our school was being bullied on the way home and we got the local PCSO to look out for him. We felt that his safety was very important”

There has been much work in enhancing the understanding about what gives kids resilience. And this is my spouting off about it today……..

First of all, we are all wired up differently. Have I said that before perhaps? I remember at a CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health) conference hearing a speaker talk about the ‘approximately third’ of kids that come from horrendous childhood experiences that still manage to turn out OK. He put it down to their basic wiring. The nature part of them had meant these ultra-nasty experiences had not damaged them as much as they would have another child with different wiring. That makes sense to me.

Secondly, just because a lot of us put up with adults with poor emotional literacy, that were allowed to hit us, that didn’t listen to us, regularly criticised us, sometimes humiliated us, did not see bullying as a problem, rarely praised us and we survived, does not automatically make it the optimum experience or correct way to school children! Perhaps some people have not acknowledged (or accepted?) the steady improvements (with respect to how we treat each other in education) that have been made in recent decades.

Thirdly. How do we develop resilience? I am pretty sure an individual is more resilient if their life is built upon a childhood in which he or she was treated with care and respect. A childhood that ‘damages’ someone leaves them with an awful lot to work out of their system, poor role modelling to follow and a disadvantaged start surely?

I know which end of this particular spectrum I am on but the way we treat our children is surely an indication of the ‘state’ of a nation’s emotional health and wellbeing?

A flavour of direction......


  1. I think this is a difficult subject, and there are no easy answers. It's good to see that young peoples' emotional health and mental well-being are being taken into account in the educational system.

    But how do you develop resilience in a young person? They do indeed need to "toughen up" to face a tough old world out there. I'm not sure that a young person has been well served by their upbringing if their first experience of not being good enough, is when they get rejected at a job interview.

    The experiences of not making it to the first football team if you don't play well enough and not getting a prize if your exam results aren't good enough are important foundations for recognising, and taking, personal responsibility for what happens to you in the world.

  2. I agree with you, Molly. My own difficulty comes from having been at school in the 60s and 70s. Along with many others, presumably, this was the model I inherited and I had nothing to compare it with. Having been around education for the last two decades I have seen some changes and been exposed to new ideas. A lot of parents haven't had this benefit and their expectations may not have changed as quickly as professionals in the field. And some teachers may be resistant to change for various reasons. I confess, when faced with seriously disruptive behaviour, I often feel an urge to punish rather than contain/transform. (Fortunately it usually isn't my responsibility to deal with these matters and I learn vest practice by observation.) I know it to be counter-productive in the long run but I can't help thinking applying swift and effective sanctions would save the other kids from having their lesson ruined by some child who really needs more than the average classroom situation can provide.

    But what I take issue with is your dissing of the dinosaur head. If a child came out with similar statements it sounds as if you would accept him/her for who they were and make an effort to 'save' them. (Apologies for the Billy Graham-ism.) Am I wrong in seeing a sub-text that is just waiting for such old-school people to grow old and retire? Surely the uncaring head is uncaring because her own childhood was emotionally barren and what she needs (for the good of her pupils as much as herself) is some love and understanding.

    I call to the witness box the story of the sun and the wind and that man with the coat.

  3. Out-hippy you, Molly? Easy! How about I slip a few milligrams of LSD into her morning vinegar? That should have her unlocking the sweety cupboard.

    Seriously, though, I had her down as being at least ten years older. You needn't identify her but next time I'm offered work in a Primary School I'll check with you before making my decision.

  4. Hi Codgi, Resilience comes from the things in the venn diagram! I am guessing there is such a thing as over protecting a child - which is not the same as building resilience. Resilience is what you need so you can take knock backs - which are inevitable in life. So it's not about not exposing kids to life - it's about helping them to be brave enough to go out and take risks (positive risks). I won't give a full answer here cos I'd draw on lots of research and probably write more than the original post!

    Jonathan - the 'dinosaur' is a woman in her early forties that used to work for the advisory service!!!! She is 'damaged' - yes and nobody (in fact most people rant about her negatively)seems to like her. My worry is for the kids in her care - a small village school. I visited and her and her staff were actually quite aggressive towards parents, children and me. That appeared to be the predominant culture. Sadly, I don't know if she could receive any 'love'. She did attend some training of mine in PSHE but just upset everyone on her table and I am not sure she took any learning from it. I suspect she won't ever receive the messages she could do with receiving. I also know a parent that removed her child from her school (for obvious reasons) but lots of parents just see it as the same as their schooling - so therefore don't question it. I am not sure what could be done in such cases as I suspect Ofsted won't necessarily pick up the issues - she's a clever woman! So what I would say in response to your uneasiness with my 'dissing' her is yes - I am happy to diss her(anonymously!!! and in effect ineffectively and to no consequence) because my main concern is for the children in her charge. It's akin to bullying as there is a power imbalance!

    If you want I'll tell you who she is and you can see what you can do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Don't try and out-hippy me Jonathan!!!!!!!!He he

    6 March 2010 11:07

    Post a Comment

  5. Oops Jonathan - I was trying to get rid of the bit at the end of my comment there and now we're all out of order!!

  6. and now I didn't even get rid of the date and post a comment bit either

  7. I promise not to diss anyone ever again! Or try and tidy up my comments I know they all need love - but what does one do when one isn't able to receive love and they dish out anger to small children?

    I'm doing unhinged hippy today!

  8. And what does one do, similarly, when faced with a small child who is unable to receive love, and who dishes out anger to the other small children around them.

    At what age is hope lost, hmmmm?

  9. We had a head teacher like that near us, she left, I was happy, so was everyone else I think, the school slowly went down the pan under her leadership...

    The previous head was fab, she did a good cop bad cop routine sometimes, slightly authoritarian, but a bit of a hippy, fantastic head teacher, our kids loved her, as did we, she retired and went on to do an MA in photography I think.

  10. Hhhmm, OK missus, what sort of set up would you advocate for the northern lads in the news at the moment then? My heart goes out to the teams that must have put in countless hours of work, indeed love, to get those children back on track and prove that there is no such thing as a lost cause.

  11. Codgi, The kids I taught were pretty damaged and at age 10/11/12 they could still engage given the right stimulus. I am guessing a school with an aggressive/bullying culture isn't doing anyone much good. Fair, clear rules, clear expectations and positive and supportive encouragement seemed to work! In 11 years of teaching, I shouted twice - and shocked myself! But if you came in my class - they'd all be on task and engaged. Slightly different story in the free-for-all of the playground sometimes! I guess people have been given up on when they are in prison - as that's currently a punishment (and keeping others safe) and not overly reformative (is that a word?) in the UK! Some people never get 'there' I guess. In any society there will always be extremes.

    Mr T - yes a great headteacher can create a fantastic culture in a school. I visit lots of schools and have pretty much concluded that an awful lot hinges on the leadership.

    Sandra - not sure what your point is there. Pro - reform or lock 'em all up? Are you saying there is such thing as a lost cause or not? Or are you talking about puniative measures needing to be more prevalent? (that's not really what my post was about - perhaps I have misunderstood you??). The 'work' that happens with de-railed kids is not always that hard hitting. We fall short of really effective counselling and I guess it's a question of how much a society is prepared to invest in reform for those that have become so damaged they are dangerous and/or destructive. The Scandinavian countries get more of this stuff right than us. But like I invest in real reform for damaged and derailed folk, right wingers will be outraged at this use of their tax. Some people are compassionate others give people one chance. I don't know what makes people be the former or think the latter.

    Generally, I think it's hard to empathise with those that behave badly if you have not had the disturbing experiences some people have had. All I do know from first hand experience of teaching kids from very testing backgrounds is that bullying them doesn't help them to change their ways. It might repress their behaviour for a while but it doesn't deal with the underlying cause and once they are out of the repressive environment, they are likely to return to the original behaviour - like people that slow down for the speed camera only!!!!!

    And two wrongs dunt make a right in my opinion!

  12. I think I have said this before, but my opinion is that we need parenting as a subject in education/ante-natal classes/somewhere to help break the cycle of crap parenting leading to crap parenting leading to damaged people...a few tips, techniques, changes and better awareness can make a huge difference. There is only so much schools can do and it is remedial rather than preventative.

  13. I find myself in agreement with Claire for parenting classes are most definitely needed, as are pre-relationship/marriage classes. For it would help to prevent a lot of mis-judgements and false assumptions from being made.

  14. There ARE lots of parenting classes being made available through children's centres across the nation. Children's centres started off in deprived areas first and now they are being opened in phase 3 (with less funding)for less disadvantaged parents (who can still struggle with parenting - let's face it, who has the manual?). Children's Centres work with families of pre-school children and do some pretty amazing stuff supporting families.

    The social changes this government have tried to implement for our most at risk groups have been pretty good in my opinion. I am guessing these positive 'pushes' don't get much media airspace as people that don't work in public sector appear not to have heard of them. Early interventions have had a HUGE push over the last decade. However, horses to water and all that. Our most vulnerable parents are often the hardest to reach - but children's centres have targets about reaching every family with pre-school children in some shape or form and giving appropriate support if needed. I believe this stuff is fantastic and is totally aimed at breaking the cycles of deprivation. The direction of push for social change appears to be well thought out, but nothing ever happens overnight.

    Can I ask if you have heard of Children's Centres? Cos if not, that is interesting.

    Going back to my original post - all i was saying is - bullying headteachers OUT OUT OUT.(with love!)

  15. I am giggling....because someone writes a comment, I respond, then someone writes a comment about something completely different and I respond...why do I feel the need to respond? You can all debate with each other.....especially as all sorts of issues are being raised!

  16. Oh and I would say a really good school with great pastoral care (more and more are going down this route) appear to be able to do some pretty amazing things with damaged kids. Some schools have really changed and the experiences kids have in them are much different from our childhoods. So get children's centres embedded and schools as supportive (not bullying) environments and we might get to a better place overall. BUT there will always be extreme kids/people that are wired up to struggle and no end of preventative measures will work.....whatever parenting/schooling etc they receive.

  17. I know of children's centres. We have one here and it does parenting courses - but the uptake is terrible and the people who do do them tend to be people who need them the least. I think we need parenting education in secondary schools as a compulsory subject. Something will sink in even if the pupils don't have kids till years later. Just gonna go look up what Scandinavia do on this matter cause they have most things sussed...!!!

  18. Likewise, we have a Surestart at the local junior school, I was only made aware of it by designing leaflets for the local RSL to publicise it to their tenants, don't know what teh take-up is like.

    I agree, it should be taught in schools. I'm not sure how you break the cycle, but there must be a way. It's become clear that a large part of the reason we have such high teenage pregnancy rates in the UK, appears to be not ignorance of the facts, but the desire to have children, just to have a focus/love, so the whole thing needs to be addressed via schools for now, I'm not sure how you make a parent care about their kids, if they don't already, and if they don't how on earth do you get them to go somewhere to tell them how to do it, start 'em young I guess.

  19. And I guess the desire to have a child at a young age can (not always) stem from low self-esteem (from poor parenting)- someone to love and them, a sense of purpose...

    Unless we teach parenting in schools, can't see how many people will ever attend parenting courses later. In Sweden apparently, they have managed to get attendance up from 2 to 7 % recently by changing the image of these courses and wider publicity - still not great!

    I think that almost all parents do care about their children - even the ones that behave as if they don't - or perhaps I'm being over optimistic?!

  20. Passing through.....

    Steady Claire...we can't have you being optimistic!!! I'd have to change all my reference points!!!! ;-) (just for you!!!)

    I think it's interesting that a big target group for preventing teenage pregnancy is looked after children. One wonders if a deep unconscious need to have a family connection with someone (a baby) plays a part.

    'Parenting' can be part of an effective SRE programme (which is mostly designed by each individual school) but I know how that varies in quality in different schools. The reactive curriculums that have recently come about by government pushing: obesity, domestic violence and financial stuff arrived very suddenly...there must be reasons why schools have not been used overtly to address this particular issue - perhaps because not everyone will become a parent? usual over-academic focus blah blah blah? not everyone needs these classes? a curriculum could not be agreed? the resilience, emotional literacy, self esteeem work already happening in schools is deemed to contribute already to someone's ability to parent well (we didn't get these lessons!!!!)? outrage that's already out there for the 'nanny state'? And always....let's not overlook the vast majority of people that do parenting well.....we are talking about a minority. And some parents parent well but their kids still turn out 'extreme'. And some damaged kid's won't nessarily go on to be great parents as a result of a little training on parenting. It's hard to break the cycle -but easy for us to throw a few 'shoulds' at it. I'd say it's a complex issue with absolutely no simple answers!

    An aside: The machine babies that cry are mostly used just to try and put pupils off having kids (research jury is still out on how effective they are)...not how to actually parent well. One girl recently said she put hers in the washing machine!!!!

    Bit of a busmen's holiday this for me! Shouldn't have started it off! actually I didn't. Can we go back to dissing bully headteachers?

  21. Yes, ta Claire, the first Para, that's what I meant.

    I think you can teach anyone anything, so long as you can engage with them, most things are interesting if they're approached correctly, so why not add parenting to sex education, we did it as part of general studies at school, along with things like abortion, contraception, but it was approached more as a group discussion, which for a boys grammar on its back foot, I thought was quite forward looking, our headteacher wasn'y a bully either he was a jolly nice man.

  22. OK I am getting sucked in but trying not to...

    That's the key....engaging. Our most vulnerable kids need to get over the 'not engaging' barrier first. But then that's not just not engaging with potential parenting classes, it's everything a school might offer.... Those that are pregnant at 14 have often disengaged a long time from school. It's one of the well researched risk factors of teenage pregnancies.

    All I know about the parenting programmes that I have received information about, is about 'positive play' with your child. They appear to work well and are evidence based...a spiral up thing. Play with your child, give praise, start to enjoy the interaction with your child, start to enjoy parenting, better bonding and attachment, better relationship, improved parenting etc. I think that might be best taught in situ with your child. I think some pupils would struggle to hold the learning from such a course for long. How much of our school lessons do we remember?

    What would you put on the school curriculum that would stay with our most vulnerable kids that have disengaged from learning?

    As I write this...and I think about the parallels to teaching kids really good SRE (informations, skills and attitudes) but it having no impact on their behaviour. A case of in one ear and out the other.

    I am not saying it would be wrong to teach parenting at school, I am saying a multi-pronged approach is what is needed. Some universal learning (at school and other places) and targeted support (actual adults there to support families)....which was the government's vision at least. Social 'ills' are not ever sorted out overnight.

    Phase 3 of the children's centre (not deprived areas) is nowehre near as well funded as in deprived areas. Phase 3 are more 'virtual'!!!

    I will add, in the first school I taught in...I used to categorise parents three ways. I know, I know...against all my priciples of grouping and assuming now but I'll share cos it makes a point. It was an odd school - on the edge of badlands but had a creative reputation that pulled a few kids from the GT.
    1) The 'come here for a beating you little shit' parents. Some kids made it out OK, some went on to commit arson etc.
    2) The highly strung, middle class, 'my kid will never be good enough' - I used to watch the kids regularly deflate before their parents' usually went on to smoke a lot of dope...had a strong need to drop out from all that expectation
    3) the hang out parents...that just said is s/he happy? Kids were often lovely

    How would you address 1 and 2? I think there are no simple answers to 'good' parenting and what might suit one child might not suit another.

    I might have to disengage myself now!!!

  23. I go away, think , and then come to different conclusions.

    I think self esteem, good social skills, good emotional literacy, aspirations, resilience etc gives you a better change of being an effective parent than anything you could teach children about actual parenting before they have actually had kids. Again...these things are very much on the school curriculum review agenda.....

    You simply cannot give what you haven't got yourself.

  24. Last point Moll - I absolutely agree - I see that as the whole point - I believe that self esteem etc. come primarily from good parenting (more than any remedial work that it done by school or outside bodies) so if parents learn to parent well we produce people with high self esteem, good social skills, etc. that will make them go on to be better parents themselves. But first we have to break the cycle somewhere so that the people who have low self esteem, poor social skills, etc. can parent better so that their kids will be better parents etc. And how best to break the cycle? I suggest teaching parenting in schools is one thing that could help break the cycle but it is by no means a stand-alone solution.

  25. And what I suggested was that schools continue to work on things like developing self esteem, resilience, setting goals that makes children grow up and be equipped to parent better...because - as I concluded earlier - I don't think 'parenting' can actually be taught effectively. What would you put in those lessons that would meaningfully stay with the kids until they became parents? What you would put on that curriculum would look different to what I put on it for example.

    The cycle is broken by helping kids with things from the SEAL curriculum. Parenting is so varied - but parents that are skilled up on those things (emotional literacy, self awareness, etc) are probably going to do a better job of parenting. I suspect THAT is why parenting lessons have not been fast tracked into schools as a seemingly intuitive remedy and why the SEAL curriculum was funded so well. The 'think tanks' do think these things through!!

    I appreciate I am the only one having these thoughts!!! Debating with myself!

    This has been the oddest post re: comments. First I wasn't loving enough, then they all needed a tougher approach and now parenting is being debated.

    If I am honest I had a bit of a 'adverse tabloid attitude' reaction. 'Teach them all parenting at school' (tick) made me think tabloid. If something seems a bit reactionary.....I respond adversely.....I know it shouldn't be an automatic response.....

  26. I can think of a million powerful things to put in a parenting course at school! (but I read a lot of parenting books!). I agree with doing all the SEAL stuff, etc etc totally, but if there home life parenting is undermining all this it does not break the cycle enough in itself. I am sort of thinking - make bad parents BEHAVE as if they are good parents despite their low self esteem etc. and good things will follow. Parenting, finance, other practical life skills all have a place on the secondary school curriculum in my opinion.

    Personally, I (we!) had a crap upbringing and some pretty bad parenting. I have had to break that cycle through self-awareness and educating myself about parenting - but most people don't do that. So I'm sort of suggesting the same thing in a place that can reach all people - secondary school. And I'm totally not thinking electronic baby crying doll type stuff!!! xxx

  27. Hi Claire,
    My favourite SEAL story was told to me by an infant headteacher. She had been using SEAL for a few years and was a school dedicated to the personal development of its pupils and she said that she realised her pupils' life skills had outstriped their parents. when she witnessed a Year 2 child run up to her mum who was clearly irate about something and about to kick off and said, 'mummy, I can see you're angry, would you like to take some time to calm down and then we can talk about it?' It was a school in a deprived area. Actually the more disadvantged the area the more a school appears to prioritise this stuff - generally. probably because they HAVE to!

    If people could be made to pretend to behave a certain way....that would sort out no end of things!!!!!! No drugs, no early sex, no crime.

    I spoke about this topic at work today and the consensus was that parenting courses at secondary would have little impact on the most vulnerable. But it would not do any harm and the less vulnerable might remember some learning that would be of benefit. But that was opinion albeit a team of people dedicated to teenage pregnancy!!!

    I am interested though (on a personal level) about what you would include on the curriculum as I haven't read any parenting books - except for the one about sleep. I do remember reading a paragraph that helped me when Mads was two that said something like, 'when a kid has a tantrum, however uncomfortable or distressed it makes you feel, remember it's worse for the child as they will be consumed by the emotion they are experiencing.'

    I genuinely do not know what I would put on such a curriculum. This makes me feel a bit weird as I usually have ideas about most things! I am not even sure what advice I would give about good parenting. Perhaps parenting isn't my's Andy's! Mmmmm will think. Ooh I know about attachment and the different stages of development of a child (but learnt about them too late to impact on my parenting).

    In the meantime..some ideas please.

  28. My (very!) initial undetailed thoughts on what could be included on a parenting course:

    1. Not negating kid's emotions - this is massive and happens in hundreds of ways and not negating them has amazing results which means everyone is happier. You would need to go into exact techniques/situations (including tantrums as you mention above).

    2. Ways of dealing with your own anger when kids misbehave and discipline in general - alternatives to shouting/smacking.

    3. How to least damage kids self-esteem - don't need to fill you in on this one!

    4. Some practical issues like sleep and eating.

    etc etc etc I could go on but I have to go to a parenting course now!!! (seriously -rising teens).

    I think one of the overall ideas (thinking aloud now as I go along) would be that if we can give future parents an awareness and techniques which will make children happier and behave better (meet their needs better), the parents annoyance/anger/etc with their children will be reduced and the love between child and parent can flow and relationships be much more positive - something like that!!! xxxx

  29. 1,2,and 3 are exactly what SEAL is all about and it is taught from reception. We weren't ever taught these things but kids are being taught them now. So hopefully, they can go on and become better parents. (bash the stiff upper lip)

    However, some schools do SEAL better than others |(bell curve moving in the right direction). Some have it embedded in the ethos of the school...some do it tokenistically (!?), some have not done it at all.

    The most vulnerable kids however, that do go on to become (often) young parents will still need support as they become a parent....round and round! they are unlikely to retain anything they learnt at high school.

    To give an example of vulnerability. Becky O worked intensively with a young parent that did not understand crockery. She ate all her food from takeaway cartons. So becky took her to the charity shop and bought her some plates and cutlery. She ate one meal off the plates and then threw them away. Becky had forgotten (or rather assumed the girl would work it out)to tell the girl that you wash up the plates and can re-use them. Another example was a girl in my class that became a young parent could never tell me what number came between 1 and 3. She was not going to grasp too many concepts in her life - including contraception (or about babies' sleep or food). She was, however, very sweet and gentle, so might have faired OK - I don't know.

    Perhaps parenting lessons at seconbdary school would be for the 'middle classes' most effectively.

  30. I think SEAL is great though often poorly taught by teachers who don't have great emotional literacy themselves or don't really believe in the value of it deep down! But I'm all for it.

    When I mentioned sleep and eating by the way, I didn't mean babies - just children in general, even applicable to adults. In fact, most of these 'parenting' things are applicable to relationships and life in general so well worth teaching as valuable lessons for life - but if we go that extra bit and put them into a parenting context (parenting as a subject) then when the children go onto have children of their own they may remember to apply them to their relationship and daily life with their children. There is just too much of an assumption that parenting is natural and everyone can do it OK. I think it is one of the most difficult things in life and yet one of the most important. I continually struggle to do it well and just when I think I am, the children move on to a new stage! I'd like a basic awareness of psychology of it and good practice put into everyone's psyche, as much a timestables.

    I agree that the very vulnerable will need continual support and guidance in their parenting - and other things.

    But, given the choice, if you only had place for one of these subjects on a secondary school syllabus (for all pupils), what would you teach: Parenting or Physics? I generally think there is nowhere near enough of Life Skills/Practical skills taught in school. The basic approach is still fundamentally academic and designed for the top end of the population. I would like to wipe the slate clean and plan a brand new curriculum for secondary schools based on what kids need for life and throw the entrenchment (is that a word?) in 'academia' out the window. xxx

  31. OK you will be pleased to hear you passed the interview and have been granted education reform.

    You know what I think about schools and what needs to happen in them (personal opinion)...I agree with you....just would put more PSHE generally...all life skills (see most recent post)...aimed at the young person/child now to change their ways...lay the foundations for a worthwhile life (and good parenting of course). get the child 'right'...especially inputing at infant school (more impactful) we'll all benefit.

    PSHE is only just being made statutory. It will still remain a small chunk of school's curriculum responsibilities. But I am optimistic that it is all moving in the right direction (slowly). Actually for it to move properly, it can't happen overnight. The white paper: 21st Century Schools made some great noises....just another ten years for it to filter through properly to schools...unless the conservatives get in of course....

  32. I'm liking the tories (!) new swedish model of school - sounds like just the ticket. First one to open in London next September.

  33. NNNNNnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

  34. Why not? It sounds fab to me and it works in Sweden and produces great sorted people!! (you have to overlook that it's the tories who want to copy it obviously. It's the Swedes who thought of it!).


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